An up and coming battle system?

As an Admin who is completely (virtually) incapable of creating a fixed yet fair battle system, I am going to delegate the task of perfecting our battle system to Bob Nukem and Meijin; with assistance from future "Magic Mod" Kan-kun and our Graphical Admin, Saria as advisors. This thread will be for public discussion of the battle system.

Right now, we have several guidelines set in stone:

There will be a Mana/Qi point system to serve as the power source of most player's capabilities, ala Chakra Points from NNL.

There will be ranks -which Saria will make banners of once they're decided and laid out- to determine what categories of moves and abilities you can or cannot learn.

We offer more freedom than NNL; there will be no list of jutsus or spells. Instead, we'll provide a list of elemental affinities and types with descriptions thereof. Users can make a list of spells/techniques they want their character to know (preferably using an allowance system like JP) and within their rank capabilities, and Kan-Kun or other Magic Mods/Admins can determine what rank each spell should be. Spells should be encouraged to be descriptive and have drawbacks.

The potential elimination of a KMP/SMP system.

Well first things first, we need to decide whether or not we want to use a point system. From there we can then create a sort of skeleton for skills and knowledge, or whatever we may name it.

Secondly, the amount of points each rank get's for spells, and the cost of spells. Currently I beleive the spell ranks look something like this:

• E-Rank Cost:10
  
• D-Rank Cost:15
  
• C-Rank Cost:20
  
• B-Rank Cost:25
  
• A-Rank Cost:30
  
• S-Rank Cost:35
  
• SS-Rank Cost:40
  

This, of course, is not set in stone. The simplest course of action is to make each one increase by increments of 5, but we don't really have an amount per rank set either. As for character ranks, I beleive we spoke about making them look like:

• D Granted:75
  
• D+ Granted:100
  
• C Granted:150
  
• C+ Granted:175
  
• B Granted:225
  
• B+ Granted:250
  
• A Granted:300
  
• A+ Granted:325
  
• S Granted:375
  
• (Possibly)SS Granted:450
  

This of course is not permanant and if we need too we can increase the cost of spells, or reduce the amount of points granted per rank for the purchase of spells. Once we get this worked out, I think we can move on to figuring out how much Mana/Qi to grant each rank and the cost of using those abilities.

Hm. Alright. As "Head" Administrator on this forum, and for the sake of convenience, I will define certain terminologies and guidelines in this thread. The following articles mentioned are not solely my thoughts, nor are the matters mentioned below currently set in stone. This is still just us (all of us. Kiseki, Scourge, Kansen; you guys jump in too) kicking the ball around.

We will have what I call an "out of character" ranking system...this ranking system can be constructed two different ways. We can force new members who sign up to -by default- be granted "E-rank" or (much like it is done on NNL) we can force new members who sign up to start out as "D-rank". What one's rank determines is slightly different from NNL, but largely based upon their pre-existing system. The fact is, here, rank will not be an immediate decider of who wins in battle. Feasibly, A D-rank could beat a C-rank, but the C-rank is still more likely to win. If the D-rank character can outsmart the C-rank character -to a degree- then the former stands a chance, whereas a Genin on NNL could never hope to challenge a higher-ranking member.

Also, we will not have a set-in-stone "promotion" system. This means that there is no actual, codified method for a D-rank member to move up in rank to become a D+ or C-rank member. This prevents people from rapidly doing mission-after-mission or event-after-event and always expecting some massive upgrade/reward. The thing is, characters on this forum need to be able to grow. By the same token, look at how many Kages are on NNL. Power -both in and out of character- must be carefully monitored, and even more carefully distributed.

I don't want people thinking "Hurr, if I work hard enough for a long enough amount of time, I can be an S-rank and take over in-character." The fact is, such ambition leads to haste. In any manga I deem "good", most notably Negima, the titular character's development is not rushed. One does not typically master a technique that takes many, many hours or days or weeks of training in-character to refine in but a day. I don't want to discourage member growth and development, but as both an administrator and a user who will be controlling one of three S-rank characters, I don't want a set system where Kan-Kun or Saria could fill out a checklist and jump up from A-rank to A+ or S-rank, and challenge our characters. I find in all forms of media I enjoy, those who are considered to be very powerful are rarely even challenged by "protagonist-kun".

I find it hard to put my concerns regarding ranks and moves into words. Maybe one of you can word it in a more "fair"-sounding manner, but it is in the interest of those in power to stay in power, while it also in the interest of the administrators and moderators to ensure that members have fun and enjoy their hopefully long stays here. We need to have a perfectly ironed-out system as best as possible. A system that doesn't let Kakashi challenge Orochimaru, nor do so in any visible time-skip. The fact is, we are making a very delicate creation here...one that must restrict those who would try and circumvent systems in place, but still allow for growth and development. Call my words whatever you will...I call them "Truth"...and the same applies to those in power (in character) of lesser rank. I don't want our two A-ranks, Kan-kun and Saria to be overthrown or "pwned" by some upstart.

We need to discuss this matter, we need a progressivist system, and right now...stagnancy seems to be the pattern. Why is Meijin the only one who has posted in this thread besides myself? I understand two things, so don't think me a fool. I know that quality is preferable to how quickly we may get things set-up here, and I know we all have lives to live. Even so, I am stressed about the development of this forum...I question my ability more than anything to effectively run it, which is why I even have Meijin and Bob Nukem as Administrators. But the members make the forum, not the other way around. I can not do much for a battle system, but I know what I am wanting to see. I just don't know how to create a system to allow both development and deadlock douchbags who dare be douchy.

Before we look at Meijin's charts, I want to work out rank. What is rank?

* Rank system for characters. I.e. Genin, Chuunin, Jounin. What does each rank say about a character's capabilities? How many techniques can they know? How many "points" do they get to learn said techniques? (By this, I mean a D-rank who knows only E and D-rank techniques could obviously know more techniques than a D-rank character who knows mostly D-rank techniques.) How many points do they get to actually use spells/techniques in character per battle/roleplay? What about a recharging system?

Character ranks

• D-rank - This would be the starting position for all/most who join our forum. These characters are typically in the "Junior High" usergroup, which means any character in this group must be no younger than twelve, and probably no older then thirteen. These characters should be allotted the fewest points in all affairs, as they are the "Genin" of this forum. A possibility is to include a "D+" rank, much like NNL allows for experienced Genin whom are slightly more capable in a number of ways.
  
  
• C-rank - The "Chuunin" of this forum, or at least just beneath such. These characters are either in the Junior High or High School usergroups. The characters in this rank are typically 16 (late Junior High) or 17 (a freshman in the three-year Japanese High School system). Allowances and capabilities rise in this rank, even moreso than from "D" to "D+". A "C+" rank should be considered.
  
  
• B-rank - The "Jounin" of this forum, or...well, maybe a little lower. We're not NNL, here. Anyway, these guys are -predictably- in the High School usergroup, usually from 17-18, 19 for late bloomers. So, freshman or middle-grade of High School.
  
  
• A-rank - Usually reserved for university students, though prodigies may allow a High School senior to obtain this rank (maybe).
  
  
• S-rank - Margi-effing-nality, anyone? Obviously, a rank given to only the three initial admins should not be easy to access. I'm not sure A-rank should either.
  

So, discuss, outline, examine, effing dissect if you can, the things above. But, don't ask me to explain. I have no talent for battle systems. This means everything from Ranks to KMP/SMP/JP/CP are all...well...everyone else's "problem", I'm just here to try and help this thread along.

I've got three big points to throw out there.

1.) Ranks

The idea I had for ranks was to have the various letter and + ranks while keeping a tier system above them. The tiers would be Junior High, High, University, and Professor. I'm unsure how you would advance from each tier given that we don't have a time system. I thought of perhaps allowing the user to request a review of their work for a rank up. The admins would check out everything they've done up until this point and decide if its good enough to go up a letter rank or a + or even a tier. The last tier would be difficult to reach given you don't usually have University students becoming teachers of where they graduated. The ranks would then be separated like this.

Junior High:
D-rank
D+-rank
C-rank
C+-rank

High:
C-rank
C+-rank
B-rank
B+-rank

University:
B-rank
B+-rank
A-rank
A+-rank
Possibly S-rank

Professor:
S-rank
S+rank

Double S, or SS, would be reserved for very specific characters in a way similar to how Legendary Rogue on NNL are very exclusive. My reasons for these tiers and the many duplicate ranks and such in the middle is to remove the sense of being trapped like on Naruto sites. When you rank up on a Naruto site usually you just got Genin, Chunin, Jounin, and if your lucky Sannin or Kage. This is very cut and dry. I know there are in between ranks, but often times they are really worth getting because half of their requirements are the requirements for the next tier. The + system is basically half a rank higher than the previous letter rank. This is a way to allow anyone get a chance to gain just a little bit more points before they reach their next letter or tier. With so many ranks its easy for everyone to strive for their next rank up then to just sit there. I'm not sure what else to put so I'm done with my first point.


2.) Basic Speed Enhancers

Aoi and Meijin, I don't know their names here, were discussing the idea of Shundo for Qi users and there was a lot of talk about how that was going to work so I'm going to put my two cents on it. Shundo will be a move that relies on a user's speed stat most likely. Shundo will be a very quick movement enhancer that can trick most eyes. The problems with Shundo is that they cannot be used in a cramped area without slamming into a surface and they can't stop midrun. This means that if the opponent moves right or something gets in the path, the Shundo user will run into it. I felt at first that the Mages ability to fly with certain spells or on staffs and such would be their version of Shundo, but I've heard that that is unfair to both sides. Mages will still be able to fly, but to counter that Shundo users will have a chance to get an Air Walking Shundo eventually. Mages will acquire their own flicker speed technique. It is essentially a teleport technique. The range is limited and will probably be based on a speed stat or on their general magic knowledge. The strengths and weaknesses of this teleport are pretty simple. The strengths are that its faster than Shundo and objects in the path do not matter. The weaknesses are the user has to have a clear path meaning they can twist around obstructions, but they can't go through objects. Another is that the path they take is lined with mana making it easier to detect than a Shundo. Also commonly when you change your perspective in an instant there is always some disorientation. I'm tempted to add a one post cooldown on the teleport technique given that it can be abused a bit more than Shundo. This is my basic outline for speed enhancers so discuss that.


3.) Point Systems

I've heard many ideas that we need a point system to keep newbs from abusing freedom that might come without a point system so I've been asked to come up with something. This system will be much like the Naruto system simply because I haven't seen any other systems so it'll be reminiscent of it. There'll be two categories, basically Knowledge Skills and Ability Skills because I don't feel like coming up with innovative names yet.

Knowledge Skills:
Body Conditioning - This is the basis behind all Qi users. To use Qi effectively you must be strong and familiar with your body. As you can probably guess users with points invested here will be expert hand to hand fighters. The first level or so will simply give the user a better knowledge of hand to hand and weapon combat. The later levels will give the user access to Qi or simply advanced Qi abilities. I think lvl1 or 2 should give way to the physical ability skills.

Mind Conditioning - This is the basis behind all mages. The more conditioned ones mind is the better attuned with magic they will become. The more the user invests in these the more attuned with mana and magic they will be and the stronger their spells will become. Some abilities might require an amount of Mind Conditioning, but all in all Mind Conditioning will be one of the stronger knowledge skills by itself.

Spirit Conditioning - This is the more vague of the three. Spirit Conditioning isn't exactly needed, but I think it can help. Spirit Conditioning will allow users access to certain spells and abilities that alter reality for others. This can range from simple illusions to the user of reality bending pactio artifacts. Spirit Conditioning will give the most perks as well. Obviously it'll give Mental or Spiritual Fortitude which is the ability to break out of reality bending spells/abilities/pactios. It's common that individuals with strong spirits hold a lot of power so perhaps we should allow it to give some sort of capacity skill. With a perk like this people will find it a much more useful knowledge skill even if they don't use reality benders.


Skill Abilities:
Speed - The basis of everything fast. It can be said that every involving precise motions and concentration fall in here too such as Dexterity, Reflexes, etc. The more points invested here means the faster you are physically and the better you are at quick and precise actions. This isn't to say that people without this skill can't be sharp or dexterous, it just means that people with the skill are guaranteed it.

Strength - The basis of everything strong. This is pretty self explanatory. The more points the stronger you are. The stronger you are the more hits you can take. Etc. Etc.

Equipment - This is a skill that enhances a user's ability to use various equipment. This can range from mage staffs and wands to physical weapons such as swords and guns. The more points you have here the wider variety of equipment your character can use and the better they are with it. That's not to say that a higher leveled person is a guaranteed master and they can defeat a lvl1 without trouble. A sniper in the hands of a newb is just as deadly when the bullet hits. The highest level of this could put a person on Chao's level with equipment such as using items unheard of like time benders or suits that grant normals magic. ((Possible Problem)) I don't want to force every person with a pactio that's a weapon to have to invest points here just to use their artifact. In the same respect, I don't want people getting around the Equipment perk by making a pactio. I propose a system where either a pactio requires one less level of ability than the skill required to use said item if it were regular equipment (Example: Mana would have to invest more points here to use her guns than Yuuna ((Not sure if right)) who gets her gun from a pactio). The other idea is to grant a user free levels of Equipment if they have a pactio. I like the idea, but that's where the abusers will come in to get free weapons for no point costs.

Stealth - This is mainly a Qi user ability that will lead the way for someone to be like Kaede. I love Kaede, but I don't want everyone to be able to be a ninja if they want. In the same respect I don't want to say you can't be a ninja so here's a skill. You want to be a ninja invest points here. It'll basically pave the way to become a shinobi.

Incantation - This ability will in its early stages grant the user quicker incantation times with a lesser chance of being interrupted. As the user advances they'll be able to incantate while running or doing other things maybe to the point where they can bend their magic in a fist fight. One of the better traits of this I want is the ability to load and store spells like what Negi uses later. I don't recall all of the details, but I know Aoi knows what I'm talking about.

Energy Sensory - This ability is basically the ability to sense various energies. The higher the skills the better the user is at it. I don't think we should have absurd distances like 1km (Though that is pretty awesome) but perhaps make it more potent as it gets higher. In the early levels the user can only sense energy they themselves are capable of producing. Qi can sense only Qi, Magic can sense only Magic, etc. As they get higher they can sense both Qi and Magic to the point where they can tell a magic has said their activation code or a Qi user has charged up for an attack. Near the end they'll be able to pick out special features of a signature such as if the user is a summoner due to the way their magic extends off of them into a space or if they are a demi-human/demonfolk etc. by the possible alterations or taints in their energy.

Energy Capacity - This ability will come free with Spirit Conditioning more likely, but basically it allows the user a large quantity of Qi or Mana at their disposal. While we're here I'd like to point out that often times I've seen that Qi users use a lot more Qi than Mages use Mana. In that respect I'd like to implement that since most physical attacks will likely use Qi that Qi users will have more Qi at their disposal at the start than mages and their mana at the same rank.

Racial Abilities - This ability is worthless on humans unless we advance it to Dark Magic or Curses. This ability allows Demi-humans/Demonfolk/Dragonfolk etc. to have a wider range to use their abilities and transformations. In essence without this skills a Dragonfolk wouldn't be able to become a dragon nor would a Demonfolk be able to access their true form. Just as Kekkei Genkais have to be watched closely and limited on Naruto these specials races will have to as well. An idea is if we have curses/dark/corruption/encroaching magic similar to Magia Erebea's effects then this skill could allow the user to control that magic more closely. Maybe to the point where you can be in control during Tuxedo Dragon.

Pactio Regulators - This ability is a novelty ability that gives the user the ability to validate pactios and make pactio circles. As we saw in the manga only Camo or special shops could grant pactios so it seems as though it takes a special skill or certification to do so. This skill will also make pactios more accessible to the users instead of perhaps having to have an event to perform a pactio.

This is all I've been able to come up with so far, but please feel free to reply with more that you can come up with. I wasn't sure if we should have specialty like Summoning, Healing, Doll/Puppetry and such be a skill or perhaps bundle those in with Spirit Conditioning. As with the others comment and discuss what you think.

I like what you have so far, I feel that we could use a few more. The Dark Magic/Curses thing you mentioned in the racial section can be it's own skill set.

As for the Ranks, I like the concept of tiers and the like as it makes a direct reference to the students remaining in each grade set for a number of years. I do have to wonder though, will a C-Rank High School be stronger than C-Rank Junior High Student? And do you revert to a C-Rank when entering High School?

For the speed enhancer, Shunpo/Short Range Teleportation, I like what direction we are moving, but instead of a "one post cool down" maybe a "once per post" type limiter? Both skills will cost some Mana/Qi so spamming it will be draining if used constantly.

Moving on to the Mana/Qi system. The list above was for the cost of spells to purchase them (Like JP) and how many points are aloted per rank. I re-read it and realized I never specified that. We need to decide the cost of spells and if we want to put a cap. I.e. 200 Mana for S-Rank without any skill boost, and then work down from there.

As to address your concerns I'll go down the list. I find they fit well together. If I understood Magia Erebea correctly it only encroaches upon Negi because he is a human whereas it cannot encroach on Evangeline because she's a creature of darkness. Granted Demi-humans would still have to have encroachment I find that it works well because powerful races won't have to worry about encroachment to begin with while humans wouldn't have to use this skill normally. You do not rank down when you tier up. I could see that being looked down upon very highly, and I'd hate to have to go up four ranks per tier. Despite tiers not really defining mages I believe a C-rank High School would, in the power scale, be slightly more powerful than C-rank Junior High. It would only be marginal so we'd jump to tiers when skills and ranks fail us. I will take your idea and make it once per post then as I understand how not having it available at all is much worse than limiting it per post. I'll map out a rough skeleton of mana/qi costs for spells/abilities then.

Training

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Specialty Skills

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Training/Specialty Points

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Mana/Qi Limits

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Basic Movement Enhancing Spells:

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Thar it's all mapped out, please discuss the values for I did not have a chance to think of every possibility with each one. I just tried to make sure each rank had a reasonable increase in points and such.